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Posted: 07/25/10 07:41 PM Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS Violationquickly?
I go out for an hour, come back and learn that while I was gone Wikileaks disclosed 92,000 secret documents and that somehow, during that hour, Guardian set up a gigantic web page with tons of stories/videos devoted to the leak. No idea how they did all this so quickly.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/series/afghanistan-the-war-logs |
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Posted: 07/26/10 09:55 AM Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS ViolationWikileaks provided the info to several newspapers in advance, on the condition that they not write about it until today.
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/07/25/wikileaks/index.html |
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Posted: 07/25/10 07:44 PM Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS ViolationWow the guy who leaked this is an American hero. The douchebag hacker (who according to wikipedia uses a stun gun to control his girlfriend) is an asshole for outing him.
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For five days, Bradass87 opened his heart to Lamo. He described how his job gave him access to two secret networks: the Secret Internet Protocol Router Network, SIPRNET, which carries US diplomatic and military intelligence classified "secret"; and the Joint Worldwide Intelligence Communications System which uses a different security system to carry similar material classified up to "top secret". He said this had allowed him to see "incredible things, awful things ? that belong in the public domain and not on some server stored in a dark room in Washington DC ? almost criminal political backdealings ? the non-PR version of world events and crises."
Bradass87 suggested that "someone I know intimately" had been downloading and compressing and encrypting all this data and uploading it to someone he identified as Julian Assange. At times, he claimed he himself had leaked the material, suggesting that he had taken in blank CDs, labelled as Lady Gaga's music, slotted them into his high-security laptop and lip-synched to nonexistent music to cover his downloading: "i want people to see the truth," he said.
He dwelled on the abundance of the disclosure: "its open diplomacy ? its Climategate with a global scope and breathtaking depth ? its beautiful and horrifying ? It's public data, it belongs in the public domain." At one point, Bradass87 caught himself and said: "i can't believe what im confessing to you." It was too late. Unknown to him, two days into their exchange, on 23 May, Lamo had contacted the US military. On 25 May he met officers from the Pentagon's criminal investigations department in a Starbucks and gave them a printout of Bradass87's online chat. |
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Posted: 07/26/10 08:50 AM Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS ViolationSeconded. The Bush and Obama administrations' secrecy, and their accompanying persecution of whistleblowers who expose what they're hiding, are a national disgrace.
We really ought to be holding hearings on the instigation and prosecution of these wars, like the U.K. is doing. Refusing to investigate gives the people who lied to the public a free pass, which essentially guarantees that people will feel free to mislead the country into war in the future. |
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Posted: 07/26/10 06:21 PM Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS ViolationThe Bush and Obama administrations' secrecy, and their accompanying persecution of whistleblowers who expose what they're hiding, are a national disgrace.
Agreed. The threat to national security isn't civilian oversight of the military; in fact that's a central tenet of the doctrine of American democracy. The threat to national security is the willingness of senior intelligence officials to negotiate with nuclear-armed terrorists. |
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Posted: 07/26/10 06:27 PM Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS ViolationAgreed. There's a line between government transparency and the lack of secrecy that costs lives.
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Posted: 07/27/10 05:07 AM Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS ViolationThe guy didn't follow the proper reporting procedures. If he reported the matter correctly, the govt would provide whistleblower protection. When you're dealing with sensitive information like this, it's all about following the procedures in place for reporting misconduct. That's the problem here.
Additionally, the guy should've known about these reporting procedures. He likely did, but chose to go outside that process. |
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Posted: 07/27/10 07:08 AM Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS ViolationThere's no way the government has a "procedure" that lets you disclose secret documents.
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Posted: 07/27/10 08:08 AM Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS ViolationYou dumb fuck. You're reading it too narrowly. When people are doing inappropriate things, there's a reporting procedure. You can provide them with the secret documents as part of the whistleblowing. The person to whom you make the report has the secret clearance required for this.
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Posted: 07/27/10 08:51 AM Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS ViolationSo you think that if you go to your superior and say "I want to release these 92,000 secret documents, but I want to do it legally using the officially sanctions whistleblower route" your boss will say "Yes of course right this way sir!"
Are you kidding?
By the way do you work in this area? I think you mentioned you're jag. |
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Posted: 07/27/10 04:43 PM Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS ViolationThe person isn't your superior. There's alternates if the first person doesn't handle the matter appropriately. From what I can tell, this guy didn't even attempt to seek help from the setup process.
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Posted: 07/27/10 04:46 PM Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS ViolationYou're being ridiculous.
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Posted: 07/27/10 04:49 PM Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS ViolationSo you're saying it's ok for people to leak anything they want about military operations?
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Posted: 07/27/10 04:52 PM Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS ViolationI think it's ridiculous to think there's a procedure by which they could leak such things with the military's approval.
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Posted: 07/28/10 05:44 AM Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS ViolationIt's not leaking the information in such a situation; it's reporting the problem.
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Posted: 07/28/10 07:06 AM Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS Violationwhatever
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Posted: 07/27/10 09:15 AM Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS ViolationThe government wasn't going to release those documents. This administration, like the Bush administration before it, has adopted a policy of hiding negative information about the war from the American people under the guise of national security. Of course, none of the documents just released truly had national security implications (Wikileaks redacted any information that even arguably could have endangered troops or operations).
If the whistleblower had gone through the reporting procedures, it wouldn't have led to release of the documents. If he had released them anyway, he would have been prosecuted no differently. It would have been an exercise in futility, and might have cost him his access. |
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Posted: 07/27/10 09:18 AM Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS ViolationAnother problem is that modern reporters are such flavored martini drinking posers that they're too scared to actually go out there and risk their lives to cover the story. CBS's lead Afghan/Iraq reporter is basically a model (Lara Logan). The only time they're in Afghanistan is if they're under heavy military protection, which means they only see the things the military wants them to see.
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Posted: 07/27/10 09:25 AM Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS ViolationTrue. And even if they see something interesting, they might not report it. It was pathetic to see the mainstream media criticize the Rolling Stone reporter who broke the McChrystal story. Reporters on CNN and Fox called it a breach of trust to publish things that were said on the record (apparently they think newsworthy on-the-record statements should be kept secret if they might damage the speaker). Other reporters marveled that the author was willing to risk future access to officials by making one look bad. If you aren't reporting the big stories, what's the point of getting access in the first place?
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Posted: 07/27/10 04:51 PM Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS ViolationTo make yourself feel like you'er a big deal, duh.
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Posted: 07/27/10 04:48 PM Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS ViolationIs release of the documents the goal? I thought the goal was to stop wasting tax payer money on funding the terrorism. The purpose is to ensure the government acts as it's supposed to act rather than informing the public about everything that's going on. For all we know, this leak could've ruined the US' attempt to infiltrate those schools and the terrorism happening in Pakistan.
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Posted: 07/27/10 10:37 PM Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS ViolationIt's a distinction without a difference here. The release of documents was justified because they were wrongly withheld in the first place. The government withheld them because they show that the war isn't a success, but the government freely releases information cutting the other way. So releasing the documents is basically the same thing as giving the taxpayers the information they need to rate the war for themselves.
I've seen nothing to suggest that the leak damaged national security. It may have damaged support for the war by betraying certain truths, but that's not a bad thing. If there are problems with the war, the government shouldn't hide those problems from the public. It should fix the problems or let the public decide whether the war is worthwhile in light of all the facts--including the bad ones. |
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Posted: 07/28/10 05:50 AM Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS ViolationI agree with the bulk of your response. My only issue is that the guy went outside of the appropriate reporting procedures to handle the problem. Giving classified information to anyone you want presents security issues. What if the guy underestimated the potential risk? There's a lot going for the guy given the circumstances of this case, so the punishment he receives will likely reflect this.
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Posted: 07/28/10 09:20 AM Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS ViolationLet's hope so.
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